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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2011.10.18 18:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm sorry, while this sounds like an interesting ideal, I don't think CCP has the ability to roll this out and not completely f'up the entire PI base. Look at the initial PI introduction and the problems and bugs that came with it. Do you really think they have the skill and patience to actually properly test this on SiSi like none of their other expansions-with-bugs.
CCP's history of rife with introduction and disinterest of new features. They like to start something but become bored with details and move to the next shiny new thing. The tax situation and roles are complicated and will need constant tweaking. I'm afraid this will be another faction war roll out. They will put it in there with all sorts of grand promises of doing something to tweak and fix but it will never occur. How many years has it been since anything was done to FW and now it is a place to get LP.
I especially find humorous the ideal that defense will be "new corporations coming together". They blatantly admit that there is no way to defend or prevent massive griefing and they "hope" the solution is people play well together. They don't see the irony in the current super-cap cluster blobs that roam around without any counter. I guess PL sitting in low sec with all their supers will play nice with the local corps wanting to do PI...maybe those small corps can come together and try to convince 1 super cap pilot to go agaubst the PL fleet in defense 
This seems targeted at the oldest and largest alliances, this is a huge buff for them and a shot in the nuts for everyone else. I like how this is admitted with the statement "the small guy should use CONCORD owned custom offices." CCP knows these small guys will leave low sec now and fill the population of empire dwellers, leaving null and low even less populated. |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 18:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
doublepost |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 20:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Omen wrote:You have some cool ideas but why do you assume the larger corporation won't tolerate you? Do people hate money all of a sudden?  On a serious note, do you actually think they are more likely to disallow you? We are operating under the assumption that most PCO owners will allow "neutral" at least for the extra dough. If they indeed don't allow you, I would bet there will be wormholes that operate free for all COs for profit. At least that's what we hope.
You have to be kidding me. You're entire logic for this change is a hope others will allow you to use it. Have you ever been in WH space at all as a neut from the corporation that is at home there. What do you YOU think the chances are they will allow you to run in and out unmolested full of valuable goods, while at the same time depleting their own fuel sources? I will tell you, ZERO!
You think 0.0 sov will allow you to run your industrial full of POS fuel and other goodies unmolested out of the goodness of their hearts.?
Be a man and call this what it is, a lockout of PI for the small person and an attempt to make PI relevant for DUST. This is a horribly stupid ideal and you obviously haven't played the game, haven't played PI, haven't owned your own station in any sec space much less WH space and know how it relates to PI. Why are you in charge of this project, you obviously don't have the experience to implement this without messing up a good portion of the game and your comments show this isn't a well thought out implementation. Yet you want to push this out near winter?
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Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2011.10.18 20:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
I want to put out some reasons why this will not work in WH.
Taxes from the planets will be minimal since they are not traveled very much to get the industrial in and out. By having the PI, the occupying corporation has to then allow the hauler/pi + prober so the PI can get out of the system. At the same time the planet will be depleted so the WH corp is now competing against someone in their own system for resources. So they may be forced to now bring in more materials than before ...do you think that price is worth the tax received? If you do, I want to sell you a statute outside Jita.
Now while the PI is operating the WH corp has to allow that person free access which means Intel. How hard is it to pull Intel on the WH system, corp, defenses, time on, ships flow, etc all under the guise of "PI"? Your "hope" to have the system owner allow a neut is the same as 0.0 systems allowing neuts, you are only inviting ambush, disaster, or worse to your wh and giving free intel to whoever may be interested.
Now lets talk about the hole itself. Most active WH corps will close the holes. If you have someone you let do PI for taxes they might start making a fuss about closing those holes. Conversely, the pi pilot may shutter the hole on their way in and out in which the WH corp was using and routing a supply ship through. not a big issue but aggravation factor can increase when conducting an operation.
Next we have the pirate-in-disguise. Once they have a foothold in your WH with their PI/prober guy they likely have to have an alt in order to keep someone in the whole so they can get their goodies out. If they can get out they can get in. You've just invited someone to bring some nasty ships into the hole to disrupt your operations, especially mining. They can also bring in a ship (depending on wh class) and start clearing out your sites. They have to have probing skill to find the wh exit so they can find your sleepers...there goes a big chunk of income for the WH corporation.
So we have to weigh all the cons (free intel giveaway, possible attacks, competing for planet resources, competing for WH resources) v. the pros (uh some taxes from 1 or 2 pi people). Which one of these do you think will happen. Hope all you want but get back to reality of this game and get your head into the game before making these types of decisions. |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 20:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bodega Cat wrote:Buruk Utama wrote:I want to put out some reasons why this will not work in WH.
blah blah blah blah blah Well, you are absolutely right. The only wormhole corps or ops on the reg that wouldn't really care about a lot of your concerns would be the smaller outfits run by the one odd russian with 12 accounts, or a small team of guys. However, these particularly smaller units have everything to fear about giving an inch to anyone at all, even if they wouldn't care about mass hits from an itty run every other day. They must have the CO's all set to off. In EVE, theirs few circumstances where it pays to be friendly at the chance of a little bit more pay in exchange for opening the door to a future burn.
I just want to point out these are just simple examples off the top of my head. Regardless if some of them can be negated it goes back to the fact this is not a very well thought out plan for implementation and cause-affect issues. |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 20:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Question on a different topic regarding the CO.
If the CO is in reinforce is it usable or locked out? |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 20:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:
no 2nd 3 rd timer so only a max of what 30h to stop your investment dying, shoudl be at least the same as a pos 1d17h max.
If you can't defend your quasi-pos within a day, you deserve to lose it.
So if PL decides to run through several low sec systems with caps/super caps and put every POCO into reinforce for lulz (or goons) and your corp/alliance cannot field the necessary 2-3xemey fleet within 24 hrs, everyone deserves to lose the POCO? I can see this system ripe for total abuse and lockout of PI in vast areas. |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 21:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Nullarbor wrote:Bodega Cat wrote:Can the Offices be named? Oh I know the answer to this one - no you cannot name them (sorry). Also, popping my dev post cherry.
You gota flip your picture port around. Your Dev banner covers your entire face  |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2011.10.19 17:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
We've seen 2 devs stick their heads in here and back out quickly. I hope they realize what a clustercrap this change is and how many things they didn't think about when making the change. What happened to identifying a problem and fixing it instead of trying to make the current PI process relevant to DUST?
A question to the devs, with all the problems brought out in this thread, are you going to actually take anything stated here and rethink your deployment or act like this thread didn't exist and feign surprise when it craps with the game?
The one thing I have taken from this thread is how disconnected the developers are to the game. When the main premise for making this change work is a "hope" the players work together and not understanding why a corporation would lockout someone v. "making isk from taxes" really shows why this game is dying and why CCP has to start cutting staff.
The "we'll watch and make changes if needed" is a bold face lie. How long did it take to make the first PI changes, while we are at it how about the FW changes, POS changes, Sov changes, etc etc etc. CCP doesn't fix things once it is in game, you move on to the next shiny. I'm sorry but team PI is only here to make the connection between DUST and EVE, they have no clue about the existing game mechanics and will send another group of people packing when you nerf industry like this. |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 17:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tetragammatron Prime wrote:If someone makes their customs office inaccessible to you there will always be others owned by reasonable people who welcome the neutral haulers into their space for the small profit through tax and potential killmails.
Translation: Lulz we took your tax money, killed your hauler, and now have all sorts of valuable industry goodies that took us no effort/time/cost to produce while orgying around our KB. |
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Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Team PI, how many of you actually play the game on a regular basis and interact with the PI/Industrial markets?
If none on your team can raise their hand then this is doomed to be one big clusterf*ck. |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:BTW, many FW players will be severely disappointed if this turns into the FW occupancy mechanic.... FYI.
Ha mabye this was the change to FW , bring people in by requiring them to need concord LP  |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2011.10.21 13:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:
- Wormholes
- Reinforcement timer in Wormholes too long for roaming gangs to do any serious damage
- Transition in Wormholes will be especially difficult without prior BPC release
Bad for casual gameplay
Hurts the casual player since they normally wonGÇÖt get the required corp roles to deploy PCOs
PI changes from low risk, low income to high risk, very boring, medium income
Why roles at all for POCs? That only hurts casual games without roles
Regarding wormholes you forgot to add that WH corporation will lock out any neutral non-corp player from the planets and wh in general just like 0.0 does, this is a very established fact.
The highlighted section. How do you go from low risk/low income to suddenly medium income for the same setup? I think there is an assumption here of price inflation that might not pan out as well as you think. However, in your claim of increased income you fail to take into consideration the POCO taxes tpaid + cost of the POCO to deploy + extremely high likelihood of destruction thus the cost of defense. Both play styles continue to be very boring since you are not changing PI interaction at all, only the PO. However instead of starting PI with the cost of the command centers and maybe supporting cover to bring them to low/null you now start PI extremely in the red. Cost of the command center, cost of the POCO, cost of the corporation creation if you are going to do it solo, cost of defense of said POCO when it comes under attack, potential cost of removing unfriendly POCO to access a planet, if friendly POCO the taxes paid. These are all factors for net income, you cannot say gross income will go up because product prices go up.
Also missing from the list is the individual capsuleer. They MUST become a member of a corporation or form one to launch a POCO. Therefore you are forcing players to move from their current play style by the corporation requirement. |
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